Share your thoughts

Discussion 1 : 18/07/2012 at 06:35 PM

abbub d41 From what i remember wasn't it a Thaksin appointee who signed away all your claims at the UN to this temple and then used the excuse that he didn't read everything he signed to try a wiggle out of the agreement ? after that Thailand found out it was pretty much a binding agreement and all international law was on Cambodia's side at that point the nationalists decided to ignore all international agreements and then try to force the issue which gets me back to the original question who was he and where is he now ?

Discussion 2 : 18/07/2012 at 05:32 PM

Khun Sinnerboy #41, I guess it is a similar situation during the Northern Ireland's conflict and the Falklands War, given that the UK, Ireland, and Argentina all shared the same "Christian" heritage! And do you know anything about the long not-so-cozy history between Thailand and Cambodia, dating back from Ayutthaya Era?

Discussion 3 : 18/07/2012 at 05:32 PM

Khun Sinnerboy #41, I guess it is a similar situation during the Northern Ireland's conflict and the Falklands War, given that the UK, Ireland, and Argentina all shared the same "Christian" heritage! And do you know anything about the long not-so-cozy history between Thailand and Cambodia, dating back from Ayutthaya Era.

Discussion 4 : 18/07/2012 at 05:28 PM

CAD D35: "this is a Thaksin mess from the beginning" Taksin was probably not born when these problems arose. But after the military coup of 2006, in 2007 the military sanctioned the agreements. Then after the elections, won by the TS party under a new name, that government accepted what it had been handed by the military. The PAD lost no time in blaming the new government for selling out the country. The Democrats put on a show of siding with the PAD by protesting and sending people to the international court of justice to put Thailand's side of the story on the table. The Democrats clearly stated they would abide by the decision of the ICJ. The ICJ considered the Thai argument and rejected it. From most of this Spiel Taksin was very absent.

Discussion 5 : 18/07/2012 at 04:46 PM

What is all the fuss about? The troops could always be put back should the need arise. Confidence building measures are what resolving this unfortunate conflict is all about and replacing the troops with normal border police is a very obvious example of such an approach. It is not rocket science to understand that reopening the temple as a tourist attraction would benefit the local economy.

Discussion 6 : 18/07/2012 at 04:03 PM

These people are just Yellowshits in a different guise. No thought of love your neighbour, rather looking for an excuse to start a war. As this power of land group well know, unless they have no knowledge of history, most of what is now Thailand going west as far as Kanchanaburi was part of the Khymer empire, so Cambodia has lost much more land through history to Thailand than an insignificant area next to one of their old temples that these fanatics are wanting to keep under military occupation. Thailand is a Buddhist country, Cambodia is a Buddhist country, the people on both sides of the border have the same heritage. These troublemakers should stop behaving like children, if they know how

Discussion 7 : 18/07/2012 at 03:28 PM

I hope peaceful solution about this problem.

Discussion 8 : 18/07/2012 at 03:05 PM

Khun Kosal #33, my question to you is what Cambodian military personnel were doing in the DMZ in the first place?

Discussion 9 : 18/07/2012 at 02:27 PM

Spiceman, Preah Vihear temple was built by the Khmer people during the Khmer empire period. During that time, the Khmer people worship Hinduism. That why they built the temple in honor of the god Shiva.

Discussion 10 : 18/07/2012 at 02:05 PM

In Thailand, there is two thought-groups. One is the group which seeking a peaceful relationship with neighboring countries. and another one is the narrow-mind unsociable group which seeking antagonism relation with neighboring countries. Now the World is the international society. So, the situation is differ from the old days. But some oraganizations has schemed to make bad use the border-problem for improving the image its organization and people’s awareness. So, when the general-election is closing to the vote-day, they has schemed to carry out a provocative action against Cambodia. And, After the general-election, they stopped its action.

Discussion 11 : 18/07/2012 at 01:31 PM

Spiceman: "Khun Mphillips #12, you have not cited me a single case of any border with legs climbing up a mountainside anywhere in the world." The western half of the US - Mexican border. Many locations. Take your pick. The US - Canadian border. Many locations. Take your pick. Libya - Chad. Libya - Egypt. Algeria - Niger. Algeria - Morocco. Austria - Italy. In fact, it's harder to find any international borders with legs that DON'T climb up mountainsides. So, you now agree with me and we can move past this flawed argument. Finally.

Discussion 12 : 18/07/2012 at 01:26 PM

So we are squabbling over Preah Vihear temple again i see some blaming of the previous government but whatever happened to the official who thought himself to important to actually read what he was signing and what is he doing now remember this was a person who started it all yet i here no mention of what government or party he was affiliated to this is a Thaksin mess from the beginning and the ultra nationalists trying to make political gain from it

Discussion 13 : 18/07/2012 at 12:52 PM

You've all overlooked the rather obvious here. Hun Sen is a tricky player, he's taken advantage of the split in Thai politics and allied himself with Thaksin to win a favour in grabbing this disputed land. That's pretty much what this nationalist group are up in arms about. Because of the aforementioned watershed and geographical considerations, the temple is useless to Cambodia unless they get to use the disputed land for access (it's a break in the escarpment). If and when they do, Thailand will no longer have the tourist benefit as gatekeeper to the site.

Discussion 14 : 18/07/2012 at 12:51 PM

SAMUT D27: "“…..and Thailand does not have to follow the order of the international court”’ does this sound familiar to us?" Yes it does, just like it thinks it does not need to adhere to internationals rules and regulations about crowd control, or freedom of expression. Thailand consistently signs up to inter nation agencies, agrees to abide by the rules and then just picks and chooses according to what it wants.

Discussion 15 : 18/07/2012 at 11:48 AM

Cambodia had already withdrew its military personnel from the demilitarized zone already this morning. The military troops was replaced by policemen, and security gaurds. The troops pulled out was witness by foreign diplomat,military attache, and government officical. Also, the Thai TV was invited to film the troop pulled out. I hope the Thai side would do the same.

Discussion 16 : 18/07/2012 at 11:22 AM

Khun MphillipS #22, the truth hurts, I suppose! My point is, given a not-so-cozy history between Thailand and Cambodia, it is better to use geographical barriers like streams, rivers, coastlines, and, of course, mountainsides, as borderline demarkation, in order to prevent any misunderstanding in the future.

Discussion 17 : 18/07/2012 at 11:18 AM

Khun Ricefield #21, the people who built Preah Vihear were Hindus, so I suppose the people you're referring to are Hindus also? As a matter of fact, I would be really surprised to find any Hindus living in Cambodia today, while there are a few Hindus still living in Thailand.

Discussion 18 : 18/07/2012 at 10:55 AM

Dis#21, the current government is doing exactly what you asked 'cleaning up the mess' left behind by the previous government. So far, it has been a pretty good job of bilateral relationship, improve economics and acting on the ICJ ruling. Along the way, there will be some protests voluntary or planned by nationalistic groups and perhaps attempts by the opposition to leverage. Agression and bad relationship will not solve any problems. Thailand as the bigger and more developed country should do more to maintain peace for itself and also for the region. I believed the government is doing just that.

Discussion 19 : 18/07/2012 at 10:46 AM

Don’t know how many of the posters have been to Preah Vihear? I was there many years ago when there was still peace. People can hardly go up from the Cambodian side; they have to climb up but access from Thai side is easy. At these days both countries were using the temple to generate income for locals by charging entrance fees from Non-Thai/Cambodian visitors and by selling food, drinks and souvenirs. There were no aggravations and no problems regarding citizen status. I believe both countries were better off that time.

Discussion 20 : 18/07/2012 at 10:32 AM

"He said some people expect the withdrawal will lead to the reopening of Preah Vihear temple to tourists." if this is the case why they are protesting? I think this is very good things for both country. Everyone agree?

Discussion 21 : 18/07/2012 at 10:22 AM

“…..and Thailand does not have to follow the order of the international court”’ does this sound familiar to us?

Discussion 22 : 18/07/2012 at 10:21 AM

Spiceman I guess in you eyes it was ok for Thailand to annex the Pattani Kingdom, including Yala and Naratiwit in 1909, was this an "aggressive use of force" By the way with out the help of the Britsh Empire back then they would have never gotten it.

Discussion 23 : 18/07/2012 at 10:21 AM

Spiceman I guess in you eyes it was ok for Thailand to annex the Pattani Kingdom, including Yala and Naratiwit in 1909, was this an "aggressive use of force" By the way with out the help of the Britsh Empire back then they would have never gotten it.

Discussion 24 : 18/07/2012 at 09:31 AM

Khun Amazed #21, my point is, given a not-so-cozy history between Thailand and Cambodia, we should stick with basic border demarkation, using geographical barriers like streams, rivers, coastlines, and, of course, mountainsides, in order to prevent any future misunderstanding (like Cambodian soldiers opened fire on a Thai commercial aircraft recently). National sovereignty is a sensitive issue, that we should not treat it lightly. However, I am in favor of leasing Preah Vihear Temple to Cambodia at price of 1 baht per year, as long as, Cambodia acknowledging that the land beneath it belongs to Thailand.

Discussion 25 : 18/07/2012 at 09:19 AM

Disc 21 - I have an incredibly close friend whom I went to high school with in Canada. He's lived his entire life a few KM from the border on the road to the temple. He and all the villagers around him claim the temple and land is Cambodian. These close border people have lived for centuries in harmony, speak each others language, marry into each others families and travel back and forth constantly, or they did until the PAD came to town. Now they can't even go and visit their relatives.

Discussion 26 : 18/07/2012 at 09:12 AM

Spiceman: I don't want to dwell on this argument that's been busted a hundred times before, but my not being able to state a single other case where a border runs through a cafe does not mean the border in Baarle-Nassau is any less valid. I'm ignoring your rather insulting and childish attack on my level of knowledge. You might want to google "Ad Hominem". I'll also ignore your Yugoslavia detour as it has about as much relevance here as your old - and much debunked - correlation to the Falkland's.

Discussion 27 : 18/07/2012 at 09:12 AM

Yawn....Again? And this has to become ASEAN? Nice start. Thailand will chair ASEAN and settle the territorial disputes with China? No way... They can't even clean up their own mess...

Discussion 28 : 18/07/2012 at 08:58 AM

Spiceman - I'm afraid I can't follow your logic. What do full blown eruptions of war have to do with a few km. notch in a border...anywhere? Unless the invasion took place at that one critical spot, what's your point? The temple is on the mountain. The roads to the temple are in Thailand. A good deal of money could be made by Thai citizens if this were handled in a reasonable manner. So much attention is being given to, basically, a nonevent. The country would be much better off taking better care of the Heritage Site it has. That is how this group could more properly express it's love of Thailand.

Discussion 29 : 18/07/2012 at 08:51 AM

"Kittisak Ponpai"?????? Who is this guy? Where did he come from? The Border Police are a paramilitary group officially attached to the Police but maintain a high level of autonomy. They are actually specialist and highly trained soldiers. So one does not see the problem. Musashi is it possible for you to actually comment on something without the PT/Red shirt propaganda? Wait, perhaps your Andriod under a new guise?

Discussion 30 : 18/07/2012 at 08:51 AM

Honestly, I do not see why Thailand is still claiming this disputed land. As to discussion 13, there WAS an international agreement between then Siam and the French government (then ruling Cambodia) to draw the borders in line with the natural watershed. However, the French did not do that at Preah Vihear, instead drawing the border well on the Thai side of the watershed to give themselves the temple ruins. It took about two decades before the Thai government ran its own border survey and discovered the French had fiddled the map. They then rightfully claimed the land as theirs. The Thais were so confident that they accepted a proposal to let the ICJ decide it. To their amazement, the majority of the court ignored the border agreement and said Thailand had waited too long to claim the land. Thailand was stuck with the decision, since it had agreed to accept it. This disputed land all lies on the Cambodian side of that erroneous French border and by the ICJ's decision belongs to Cambodia. How can the Thai government still insist it is theirs? It really was ... until the ICJ gave it to Cambodia. Accept it and get on with more important things.

Discussion 31 : 18/07/2012 at 08:45 AM

Soldiers = pro-Institution. Police = pro-Thaksin. According to the PAD, it's as simple as that.

Discussion 32 : 18/07/2012 at 08:18 AM

How can a gathering of 10 people end up at this front page ? "About 10 members of his group gathered at Muang Thong intersection in Si Sa Ket yesterday."

Discussion 33 : 18/07/2012 at 08:12 AM

Is not the truth that the Border Patrol Police whilst technically part of police is really much closer to a military unit which usually operates under armed forces direction and training. Many of its members are former military. I guess the Cambodians have a similar 'police' force which they will use. Both sides have made a cosmetic gesture, but actually the court's demilitarised zone will remain as militarised as before. I do not see the Thai government rushing to change this nor giving an inch to Cambodia - perhaps they should join the PAD/Power of Land group who seem to have a similar stance?

Discussion 34 : 18/07/2012 at 07:40 AM

Spiceman: There is a border between Austria and Germany in a salt mine in Bad Dürrnberg. There is a border marked by a lighthouse on top of a hill between Denmark and Sweden. There is border that runs through a café in Baarle-Nassau between Holland and Belgium. The fact is that there are no "international legal precedents" as you have been told countless times before. Borders between nations are decided by the nations involved and can run however they want.

Discussion 35 : 18/07/2012 at 07:25 AM

These groups have hidden agendas they never reveal in new reports. Investigations and exposures to the general public should accompany their many claims. Why aren't they beating their drums about the south.

Discussion 36 : 18/07/2012 at 07:10 AM

Khun Amazed #6, if the border of Cambodia is allowed to climb up a steep mountainside against the force of gravity and all known international legal precedents, where will it stop? Hitler and Stalin once had a binding agreement of nonaggression, didn't they? And we know what happened. I blame Thai Governments, both past and present, for prostituting themselves, and threatening the country's very own national security and sovereignty in the process. I am convinced that Cambodian military strategists have been studying an ancient book, the Art of War, written by a Chinese most brilliant strategist, Sun Tzu more than a thousand years ago. He wrote "War is all about intellect of advancing your position toward an ultimate goal of victory, through maneuver, deception, and surprise, rather than brute force. Now, they are applying Sun Tzu's timeless waring principle right down to the letters and with spectacular result. And I commend them for it, for what they lack in firepower is more than made up for by their intellect and resourcefulness.

Discussion 37 : 18/07/2012 at 06:52 AM

"We should not be misled because that could cost us our land" The land was lost in a land swap may years ago. Mr Kittisak should be thankful that he's not speaking French as his native language.

Discussion 38 : 18/07/2012 at 06:48 AM

Letting them have the Temple, but not the land around it smacks of the xenophobic laws about foreign land ownership

Discussion 39 : 18/07/2012 at 06:40 AM

"The International Court of Justice ordered Thailand and Cambodia to pull their troops out of the demilitarised zone covering and surrounding the disputed area a year ago." Thankfully, this is not the attitude of the current government. These 'ultra-nationalists' are positively dangerous for Thailand's reputation in the world!

Discussion 40 : 18/07/2012 at 05:54 AM

Don't worry Yellow shirts, Dems, "Power of Land" and others conservative and ultra-nationalist groups : once we will oust the elected government of Yingluck, we will be able to start one more time against those bad Khmer who have taken a Khmer temple of 4.6 sq km. Like during the good old time of Abhisit !

Discussion 41 : 18/07/2012 at 05:46 AM

Spiceman, - A binding agreement made by an official representative of Thailand set the boundaries. You may not like it, you can cry, "We didn't mean it", and "no one asked me" all you want, but that is the way it is. Time to make lemonade out of lemons and a lot of lemonade could be had if everyone stopped pounding their chest and claiming, "No one loves Thailand like we do!"

Discussion 42 : 18/07/2012 at 05:34 AM

Thailand, The HUB of demonstrations, protests, political instabilityy and road blockages......

Discussion 43 : 18/07/2012 at 05:04 AM

Kittisak: "..Thailand does not have to follow the order of the international court." Not surprised at all with his attitude. If the Dems/PADs can stage a coup and have the local constitution re-written for their own benefit, obviously they will feel that they can do the same at the international level. The willful disregard for international boundaries was what landed the two yellow clowns Veera Somkwamkid and his secretary Ratree in Cambodian jail. Chamlong and Limtongkul did nothing when their deks got imprisoned for following their orders. Neither did their good friend AV and the Dems. These two have been completely forgotten by their yellow peers. Only the PT government has graciously set aside color politics and has been trying to negotiate for their release. It will not help these two at all if Kittisak re-ignites the border clashes.

Discussion 44 : 18/07/2012 at 04:46 AM

Khun Amazed #2, what law? Did the UK return N Ireland back to the Irish, China returning Tibet to the Tibetans, or the US returning the Alamo along with half of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California to Mexico? Hell, No! You can cite whatever law you want, but the fact remains that the world continues to be governed by an aggressive use of force, as it has always been since the beginning of time. Isn't it "Do what I say, but not what I do?"

Discussion 45 : 18/07/2012 at 03:32 AM

Amazing how a small minority of people can wrap themselves in the sacred cloth of righteousness and speak for millions of others. Smart people would see the advantage of working with Cambodia. For those paranoid few who refuse to acknowledge the legality of the situation, remember that the whole area is now well documented and incursions into any proven sovereign land can easily be proven. Then Thailand would have the law on it's side. It's hard to refer to this as a mole hill, only because of it's physical location, but, in terms of serious matters in the country, this is truly the making of a mole hill into a mountain while endangering the reputation of the country and welfare of citizens in the area. Troubles come frequently enough without having to create them.

Discussion 46 : 18/07/2012 at 03:30 AM

the hidden agenda here is that they are part of the Yellow Skirts movement (no not spelled wrong). Do you really think these soldiers can not returned if needed. There are some who just do not want to see peace in Thailand.