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Discussion 1 : 03/10/2012 at 06:55 PM

Domdunn,D35 : No,of course I don't think feudal lords ANYWHERE cares. The difference between farmers in red occupied territories and the others are education. In the south they grow more than one crop and they don't have red kommissars telling them what to think and do. What you obviously refuse to understand is the Dems/NIDA are actually trying to improve the rice pledging scheme to make sure the poor/landless farmers reaps most,if not all,the benefits rather than dirty politicians and their relatives. It's funny that you make such an effort pointing out that farmers in red occupied provinces are not being "organized" against their will. The effect is the exact opposite,especially coming from you,a former irish banker.

Discussion 2 : 03/10/2012 at 03:46 PM

Well Kasper , the alternative that you must be advocating which will then be to do nothing and wait for the problem to go away...sorry mate that won't work. No the only way is for the citizens to stand up and say they had enough and report the corruption, before that happen no change will be possible. Maybe you believe that with another government the corruption will go away ? Well got news for you Kasper, it won't .... corruption has been bred into the Thai society over generations by previous governments. Or maybe I should ask you how corruption is removed , maybe you got some ideas yourself ?

Discussion 3 : 03/10/2012 at 02:27 PM

This seems to be the modus operandi of choice (mob rule) to confront people whose view they don’t like or disagree. Please don’t confused these actions as “peaceful protect” because there are many peaceful options available to facilitate exchange of views without resorting to intimidation tactics disguised as “protest”. Only when the substances and merits of the issues in question are vigorously debated by the competing parties will there be a better understanding / solutions that all can accept. Democracy is about exchange of view points by the proponents and we the people (all of Thailand), with our collective wisdom, decides the general consensus of the time.

Discussion 4 : 03/10/2012 at 02:27 PM

@khunbj, d31. And don't expect anyone with insider knowledge, such as the graft agency officials to blow any whistles either. Remember what happened just recently to the guy who decided to do something about illegally built resorts on forest land? Or the guy who wanted to expose corruption regarding the flood prevention money? Yes, PTP decided to get rid of both of them. Have you heard anything from any of them since? I hope you remember these cases in your endless support of the PTP!

Discussion 5 : 03/10/2012 at 02:22 PM

@khunbj, d31. Several times this year alone someone has blown the whistle by exposing wrongdoing either in the papers or on youtube etc. Can you recall the responses from the police chief, PTP's Chalerm and others? Was it "Well done for bringing this problem to our attention, we will fix it imediately!" Or was it "Who posted that video?? Rest assured we will do everything in our power to prosecute this whistleblower who is defaming our country by exposing the truth!!"

Discussion 6 : 03/10/2012 at 02:20 PM

bangmodken d33 And you think the feudal lords in the south don't care? The northern farmers are being organised (not against their will) by the UDD, the southern farmers' feudal lords are Democrats and support NIDA and so are keeping quiet.

Discussion 7 : 03/10/2012 at 12:56 PM

"The farmers lambasted the academics for their move and accused them of being manipulated as a political tool against the government." Hmm isn't everything used as a political tool in Thailand (or any country for that matter). But that is beside the point......

Discussion 8 : 03/10/2012 at 12:05 PM

KhunBJ : You are correct in many aspects and I'm sure you wish the best for poor/landless farmers,just like the rest of us,but I wonder why it's only rice-farmers in red held provinces who are protesting? If the academics and the Dems were so wrong in their criticism of this scheme/scam,I would imagine the rice-farmers in central and southern provinces would be protesting as well. But they're not. Personally,I think the farmers from red provinces are protesting because the local feudal lords told/paid them to. They(the feudal lords in the red provinces)are the ones who benefits the most from this policy which is why we see their "lowly subordinates" in the streets,everytime anyone dare to criticize the PTP/UDD and the policies.

Discussion 9 : 03/10/2012 at 11:55 AM

My parents were rice farmers for many many years. I know exactly what they need. They don't want handouts, they just want fair market value for their crops. Low interest loans to buy fertilizer, help to buy machinery, and help creating markets will benefit all farmers without crippling the country's economy.

Discussion 10 : 03/10/2012 at 11:52 AM

Sunshine : yes maybe you are right, but else the alternative for the Government would be to stop employing people, stop doing investments in anything and wait for corruption to go away, don't think that will work either....what we need is strong citizens not afraid of blowing the whistle. Most big embezzlement and fraud cases, look at Enron, Madoff etc had whistle blowers as well...we need some here too...now we have a hotline 1206 where you can call about corruption, hope people use it.

Discussion 11 : 03/10/2012 at 11:32 AM

Among all of the negativity & sarcasm, I see a peaceful protest as a positive sign in Thailand's newly emerging "Coup-proof" democracy. Others may see red or yellow, but actually, unity on common-ground issues is the way to go. "Us versus Them" historically leads to destruction & regression and, IMHO, Thailand needs to progress.

Discussion 12 : 03/10/2012 at 11:21 AM

This is the problem when you let ignorant people with very short foresight pick who runs the country - policies directed at satisfying people in the short term while setting up catastrophe in the long term will prevail. The rice buying scheme and other populist policies will destroy Thailand's economy. What needs to be done, but would take longer and not be as "flashy" is helping give farmers the tools and knowledge they need to become independent through diversifying their economic activity - something vote-hunting exploitative criminal governments will never even consider doing.

Discussion 13 : 03/10/2012 at 11:05 AM

If I was a farmer of another crop besides rice I would be asking why rice is subsidized and not my crop .Of course this would also make meat producers question and on down the line .Subsidizing rice will come back and bite you PT .Bank on it .

Discussion 14 : 03/10/2012 at 11:05 AM

What we can clearly see from this is that the guys in power, which are the ones taking the biggest bites out of this free cake, using more and more reds and poor farmers as their political tool to go against any opposition of such highly profitable corrupt projects. Hopefully these "tools" will understand before it is too late that they are used as such and at the end will not get the slightest benefit in return.

Discussion 15 : 03/10/2012 at 10:38 AM

Probably the farmers were paid (as per usual) to demonstrate by the bigger rice producers, millers etc.

Discussion 16 : 03/10/2012 at 10:34 AM

Let us start at the bottom It will not cost the government anything it will cost the tax payer. Reading yesterday it would appear the small farmers are loosing out. If the protesters represent all farmers what proportion of them were small farmers and how did they get there. Who is benefiting most from the scheme the farmers or those involved in corruption. We cannot agree with the figures given because we have not seem to anything to substantiate them. And finally because corruption is rife we the tax payer, the little man but with some common sense find it hard to agree with many things the government says.

Discussion 17 : 03/10/2012 at 10:13 AM

When people quote numbers, do they actually believe what they read. 15% Growth???????

Discussion 18 : 03/10/2012 at 09:27 AM

Disc. 19 - By the above I count 8,200 farmers (being generous as there could easily be overlap in the 3,000, the 5,000 and the 200 count). As a percentage of total rice farmers in Thailand what would that represent? Protest leader Khwanchai Mahachuenjai, who is president of the Samtum tambon administration organisation in Ayutthaya, said the pledging scheme helped free farmers from massive debts and improve their lives. Unfortunately he forgot to add that while it may free them from debt it sidles the rest of the country with massive debt.

Discussion 19 : 03/10/2012 at 09:15 AM

I understand from the comments concerning this rice scheme that nobody seem to check numbers, on more than one occasion it has been suggested by academics and democrats that farmers only receive only 5% of the scheme ....when considering that the latest scheme is 240 bn for 15 mill ton, then that would be 800 THB per ton , this is of course not true but I am amazed that so many don't even question it .

Discussion 20 : 03/10/2012 at 09:04 AM

Many people are without food in Thailand, but these jokers think it funny to smash eggs on the street.

Discussion 21 : 03/10/2012 at 09:03 AM

Mommy, I don't care what the Constitution says, give me what I want or I'll throw a tantrum and pout. Giving in to that indicates bad parenting and bad governce.

Discussion 22 : 03/10/2012 at 08:53 AM

This issue is attracting so much attention, and criticism, because it dares to divert money away from a small group of influential rice exporters and other connected parties and channel it instead direct to the producers. Anything which challenges the status quo in Thailand is sure to attract abuse from those who lose out. As for only 5% of the proceeds going to the farmers, as claimed by some, well, how do you explain this demonstration by farmers against academics, none of whom have probably ever harvested a field of rice in their lives. Also, sections of the media, if you know where to look, report that farmers are happy with this scheme.

Discussion 23 : 03/10/2012 at 08:14 AM

khunbj, what you forget is that those who blow the whistle are blown away never to be heard from ever again.

Discussion 24 : 03/10/2012 at 08:06 AM

Abbhisit used to be critizised because he was intelligent but disconnected from the people. The academics seem to make the same "mistake". As per other articles, their intent was not to 'scrap' the scheme but to have it adjusted, so more money goes to the poor farmers and less into pockets that will never be full. Somehow the academics missed to inform the farmers properly about their intent so now they end up having the farmers against them instead of supporting them.

Discussion 25 : 03/10/2012 at 07:54 AM

Somebody wants the farmers hard earned money. Somebody is suffering the loss of income since the rice pledgeing scheme started.

Discussion 26 : 03/10/2012 at 07:52 AM

Help the farmers or just give the rice away that is a good idea for helping the people and the economy.

Discussion 27 : 03/10/2012 at 07:45 AM

"The farmers lambasted the academics for their move and accused them of being manipulated as a political tool against the government." Have the farmers ever thought about who is using them as a political tool against any oposition? Wake up please.

Discussion 28 : 03/10/2012 at 07:36 AM

Spiceman : suggest you follow the US debate, a lot of critics as it only benefits big farmers....and is contrary to the belief that the US is for the free capitalism, because it ain't . Whatajoke : Can't believe that you can claim there is no fraud in the EU and US subsidy schemes, read the news Aussie : Yes also in Oz the government supports farming...corruption , yes there is a lot of corruption in Thailand, but it does not just go away by itself, with that attitude that society should stop doing anything..... it requires that people empower themselves and report it when they see it...the % you refer to is hearsay, if you have documentation then please supply it . As I said there is a lot of corruption, if you know about it blow the whistle, hearsay is not helpful unfortunately ... I am looking forward to see all the corruption cases at court, because they will have to pay back the money they stole from the State, but apparently no brave person has blown a whistle yet, else it would have been at the front page of BP, where it would belong. Pete : yes Norway pays a lot too, so does the rest of the world.....that is the point pete. got it ? why shouldn't Thailand ??

Discussion 29 : 03/10/2012 at 07:22 AM

khunbj - "open your eyes and pay notice to how the rest of the world goes about farm subsidies, why should Thailand be any different....?" Because in Thailand 40-50% of the money goes in someone else's pocket and 5% got to the "poor" farmers. I've said many times, that I wasn't against the "scheme" per se, but against the fact that 100 billion baht went missing. Are you okay with that?

Discussion 30 : 03/10/2012 at 07:21 AM

Giving away money for no extra work or productivity is Charity. Helping the farmers produce more/better crops for the same effort/expense is what will, in the long run, improve the lives of farmers. Keeping them addicted/dependent on Govt. handouts is keeping them from bettering themselves. Even if the rice pledging scheme wasn't riddled with corruption, it's a bad, bad program for the future of farmers, farming, taxpayers, and Thailsnd's economy. "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man how to catch fish and he is fed for a lifetime".

Discussion 31 : 03/10/2012 at 07:15 AM

She assured that her government could sell off the rice in its stocks. How exactly , do the math people ? khunbj Dis#3 because it has already been shown to be corrupt and non transparent , with less than 5% getting too the rural poor and land leasing rice growers !Exactly why the Dems are saying : Appointed senator Paibul Nititawan said the high rice pledging price should cover only small-scale farmers and the government should set another rate equal to the market price for large-scale businessmen involved in the rice trade. As the government's pledging price is higher than the market price, the senator said that landlords were reclaiming their paddy fields from small-scale rice farmers who were lessees. He said the landlords wanted to grow rice by themselves and cash in on the pledging money and this would cause problems for small farmers. Wouldn`t that be more in line with helping the poor and ensuring the usual middlemen an millers arethe ones forced to improve thier old ways , of screwing over the poor farmers ?

Discussion 32 : 03/10/2012 at 07:10 AM

If the government was really sincere about helping the farmers to increase their income, they could have chosen other ways, such as freeing them from the impoverishing chains of chemical agriculture; showing them how to increase their yields and crop quality; improving irrigation; etc. I'm all for helping the farmers to become wealthier, but how will the government find buyers for the rice when it is so much more expensive than the rice in other countries? The rice industry must surely collapse one day.

Discussion 33 : 03/10/2012 at 07:09 AM

Khun bj - bj sums you up, the cheque is in the post, I will not in your mouth, how naive are you. I am all for farmers improving their lot but unfortunately it is the middlemen who pick up the majority of this money. After the graft has been taken out of course. the EU & US cannot be compared with Thailand as although the subsidies have their faults they are not so open to corruption and graft

Discussion 34 : 03/10/2012 at 07:06 AM

This turning up to be big egg on the academics faces as the clients they are representing don't need them And that they are so wrong. These academics are also ignoring the Thailand Chamber of Commerce survey on farmers that the scheme is benefiting them and pledged money received well within 10 days. Really exposed the academics that they have a hidden agenda and serving self interest groups. Even the constitution court throw out their petition which say a lot.

Discussion 35 : 03/10/2012 at 06:50 AM

US and EU subsidies are sensible, corruption free and end up in the pockets of the farmer so that they can continue growing stables at home as a sovereign security measure. It's so sad to see these farmers being so stupid, they are the ones being shiort changed by the scheme because the huge losses being incurred is simply denying them other benefits like better health care and more infrastrucutre or a more sustainable program such as the previous one. But it's not them playing the tax so what do they care.

Discussion 36 : 03/10/2012 at 06:38 AM

Khun BJ #3, the American farmers made up only 5% of the US population, and the US Govt's is supporting them for reason concerning national (food) security. Uncle Sam is trying to discourage the super-productive American farmers from producing too much because it drives down the prices, by paying them upfront not to plant their fields. Thai farmers made up about 40% of the Thai population, and the Thai Govt is encouraging them to produce more which will inevitably drive down the prices. This is where the whole Rice Mortgage scheme falls apart. Now, Vietnam and Indian farmers will be having their best years ever as more people are switching from buying more expensive Thai rice, for their cheaper alternatives, your truly included.

Discussion 37 : 03/10/2012 at 06:26 AM

Disc 3: Why do you always make comparisons with countries such as US, UK or EU where you don't come from? Go closer to your roots and look at Norway: "Norwegian farmers get a larger proportion of their income from government than any other country in the OECD, a report showed on Wednesday". Don't believe me? http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/norways-farm-subsidies-highest-in-oecdsubsidies

Discussion 38 : 03/10/2012 at 05:50 AM

Brilliant : American farmers receive 600 bn THB buy their Government and the Brits 200 bn THB from the EU ...open your eyes and pay notice to how the rest of the world goes about farm subsidies, why should Thailand be any different....?

Discussion 39 : 03/10/2012 at 05:32 AM

Its sickening how the present government is using the poor as a political tool. Only when the farmers can stand united against these latent masters will there be any change...unfortunately the 'patronage system' has left farmers culturally subservient to those with power and wealth..

Discussion 40 : 03/10/2012 at 04:39 AM

"The farmers lambasted the academics for their move and accused them of being manipulated as a political tool against the government." LOL, who is the political tool? They might have some legitimate argument if more than 5% of the 300 billion baht had gotten to the poor farmers the "scheme" was meant to help. Don't they have another crop to plant or harvest? How do rice farmers have so much free time?